Nuances of Anime Subtitling

Asterisk-CGY

Huh, last I checked Horriblesubs did no subbing, just ripping and formatting subs put up on Crunchyroll, which I don't know who subs them, either the company putting it up for stream or someone in the fanbase.

Course, since I know no japanese all I can do is link more used words with whats being put in the script, so I feel better when I just read literal japanese in the subs, going off what they said and not what they meant.

Course now, I need to replace my archives with something better apparently.

Lokiman

Really appreciated your little anime-subs related article. I would like to see something like this more often.

Btw I like that we have so many fansub groups because we can actually choose the right one for us. And as time goes on and we learn more and more Japanese from it - we can shift from liberal to literal (or vice versa) any time :) I personally do not like obvious "mistakes" translations but I think many people just don't care. If there is sense in the the translation then everybody can be satisfied. And there is also this factor when people want to see the first fansub released...

Barsona

that's why, RAW is the way to go~
yay~

NaKAhi70

The Lucky Star ones are correct...

Raz

Very nice article with a lot of comparative analysis to backup your claims. I agree with a number of points that you brought up, summing it up in a balance of "truth and sensibility". As far as personal preferences go in terms of subbed anime, I enjoy preservation of the little cultural nuances in translation even if I don't particularly understand them at all. In most cases it maintains a logical flow of what the character does or is referring and what they say. I've seen some translations where what the character says initially or as a response creates the feeling of "Where did that come from?" or more colloquially "WTF?".

In the defense of liberal translations, not the most exact finely detailed translations are the best. Some cases in anime there needs to be a refinement of what was said or narrated to fit the scene as where the original translation is either too wordy or lacks "situational emotion". I can't name any examples off the top of my head at the moment, though the closest that comes to mind that escapes me is one scene in "5 Centimeters Per Second" by Makoto Shinkai. I've watched several translation reels including the official English one by ADV and out of possibly the 3-5 different groups, only one did it beautifully.

As one who enjoys dubs, I'd really rather not get into that debate as it's a matter of preference...and it gets rather exhausting. Dub and sub comparison is the age old showdown between apples and oranges of which there can be no winner...unless you prefer grapefruit, then apple and orange supporters unite against a common enemy. The reason I say this is because for an anime purist of which there are many, the mere thought of changing the original audio track would incur pitchfork wrath amongst those masses without having even heard whispers of the new voices. Taking your main point to get across my own in terms of dubs, dubbed anime tries to "retain the original 'intent' and content while making sense to a different 'culture'". That said, dubs are in a completely different category from subs. I have watched some series, To Heart for example, where they tried preserving the honorifics and cultural references which in turn ended in disaster....in my opinion. While I very much appreciate the attempt, all the -chans and -sans in English paid no homage to its origins. In some cases, keeping these tiny yet important cues just doesn't transition well to another language or culture.

There is, however, an objective base for comparison and that is quality. While I enjoy watching dubbed anime, there are some series that should never have been. The original 'To Heart', again I bring them up, in my opinion was horrible. I dislike the Lucky Star and Haruhi Suzumiya dubbed tracks and will strictly watch them subbed. Cowboy Bebop and Full Metal Alchemist I have watched both subbed and dubbed and the latter was superior. There is a disparity created between the characters and setting with the Asian voice cast. Cowboy Bebop has that Western outlaw and vigilante justice feel to it that is accentuated by an English cast, even the original creators felt the English version was far better. In cases where there isn't a very grounded Japanese culture in the story, the dubs usually will fair better...as long as the production company does it right!

I'm not trying to convince anyone dubs are better because again, it's a matter of taste. I for one hate green beans and cauliflower, regardless of the nutritional benefits and/or sauteed with shrimp in a curry disk. I will not eat it because I just don't like it...however I know people who do so I will gladly pass it to them for enjoyment. The same goes for subs and dubs, don't like it...don't watch it and let those who do have it (^^;)

coffeebugg

Good read. Very informative. Really puts into perspective the difficulty of translating and the amount of work done by fan subbers.

Miette-chan

I don't care much for honorifics if they are there fine if not that's fine too. As far as literal translations and so, as long as the meaning stays roughly the same it should be fine. However, people should understand literal translation might not necessarily be the best for all types of context.

One thing that has started to annoy me in manga though. Is the addition of "ne" at the end of every sentence.

Kodama

The old Urusei Yatsura subbed VHS tapes from AnimEigo stuffed liner notes that explained some of the more obscure references and background info in the series. I find that there was a lot of things that cropped up in other anime over the years that made sense because I had that info.
I find I do catch out the translators occasionally if they get lazy or over-simplify. As I buy all my anime (I want to send that money to the creators) sometimes the subs are quite good, other times it like a black hole (major suckage).
Some, like "GITS:Stand alone Complex" I saw it subbed on DVD, then a Canadian station carried it dubbed. It was the first time that I saw a dub that was on par with the original Japanese cast. They matched up the characters voices almost exactly, and the dialog didn't deviate noticeably between the tracks. (GITS:SAC is heavily dialog based at times)

radical anime fan

Good insight into two conflicting sides concerning anime subs. :)

For me though, I've watched anime for some time now, and even without the subs simple words and honorifics translate to their original meaning when I hear them. No matter how good the sub is, there will always be someone who's no satisfied with a certain aspect, me included, but if it can sufficiently carry the meaning over, I don't really mind how it's subbed. Leaving "onii-chan" as it is instead of "big brother" and others of like are justified in my opinion, since while there are literal translations in terms of language, it has no cultural equivalent. I am sure casual words like "Bro" or the name of a sibling would be far more used in our case. Of course, some of the examples Otaku King used were half filled with Romanji, which sort of defeats the case of translations. Preference about subs is pretty much personal taste. I'd rather have something to watch than a raw, since my own Japanese langauge skills is about as good as a young child's...

That said, if someone really likes to nitpick at subs, you can intro them to some dubbed series instead. A whole new can of worms... :P

Shazz

D:

Flawless EXA

Finally someone that has the same point of view I do. I want the sub to be as close to the actual words as possible. Subs isn't just a translation to me, subs are also a way of learning and bridging the gap between English and Japanese.

I hate the names being backwards and it's very annoying when I could hear the Japanese and could tell that the translation is off.

I could go on and be detailed and stuff (like Raz there), but I am the kind of person that hates detailed arguments. It's rather tiresome. ^ ^;

Natedeezy

I have a hard time agreeing with this article. He said you usually only get attached to anime because you care about Japanese, and if you DON'T care about the Japanese go find a regular cartoon with good plot,characters, and so on.... We'll that's so far way off it's not even funny. Most people get into Japan because they got into anime FIRST. And people arn't drawn to anime only because it's related to anything Japanese, they get into because regular cartoons do NOT have plots, and/or characters that go anywhere as deep as anime. Have you ever seen a cartoon in the U.S with a storyline longer then 2 episodes? I would rather know what I', reading rather than have half the convo translated and the other half with -sama's and such caking it down. Sorry but the author is way off, atleast for the anime fans I've ever met.